It began as an online dialogue about the hindrances. It was between a myself and a student named Brian. It took place at Dhammasukkha discussion group. There was an ongoing discussion concerning the various aspects of the practice of meditation. An entry was made and what followed evolved into what has shown to be a valuable look at the hindrances. So, we invite you to have a look hoping you find some use out of it for your practice.

The dialogue went on for several days with contemplation and testing out the views in practice in between.

In the beginning , it began like this:

I should like very much to hear about the Hindrances and what others has learned about them?
Khanti-Khema

BRIAN: [responding to Khanti Khema]: I can divide what I've been taught about the teachings on the hindrances into 2 basic flavors. Flavor #1 advises the meditator to just bring mindfulness to the hindrance, to pay attention to its arising and passing away with on looking equanimity. This appears to be the approach you subscribe to. Flavor #2, which seems to have more direct support in the suttas (see MN 2, MN 19 and MN 20, for Canonical examples of this approach) takes a more proactive approach. Ayya Khema (not you, the German-born Thera nun) advocated the use of substitution: if a thought of hating arises, for example, one's mindfulness notices this and, with on looking equanimity, substitutes a diametrically opposed thought, such as loving kindness or generosity. The simile given in the sutta (MN 20, Vitakka Santhana Sutta) is that of a carpenter using a finer peg to drive out a coarser peg.

Not to be a fence sitter or eel wriggler, but I can see merit in both Flavor #1 and Flavor #2. I used to be more inclined toward Flavor #2, but recently my newest teacher, Dae Ja Napier, explained the mindfulness and on looking equanimity approach in such a way that I no longer see it as lacking in the quality of Right Effort. The effort to establish and sustain mindfulness is indeed quite correct.

BHANTE VIMALARAMSI: I just saw what you wrote to Khema about the hindrances and thought I would add my two cents to it. What I have found in my own practice is that "HOW" the hindrances arise is more important to observe than what the content of the hindrance actually is. By this I mean, when we follow the way dependent origination works and see the process clearly then we can begin to let the hindrances be, without the tightness in both mind and body [head mostly] caused by the craving and the thoughts caused by the clinging.

The watching of a hindrance in the Vipassana way seems to work, kind of, [I practiced that way for twenty years] but I have found that there is still some residual tightness that is not seen clearly and/or ignored. But when we practice the breath or loving kindness meditation as it is taught in the suttas, it is a little different technique than the standard way of Vipassana and other Jhana practices. The difference is adding he extra step of relaxing this tightness in the head and body before redirecting your attention back to the meditation object. I have found that simply watching a hindrance until it goes away is using a form of one pointed concentration and this type of concentration tends to go deep enough to actually suppress the hindrance, but doesn't eradicate it. Why? Because the force of this kind of meditation goes very deep but the awareness of the entire process of dependent origination isn't seen clearly.

Because I am talking so much about dependent origination maybe it would be good to delve into it a bit. We'll start with nama-rupa. We all have, potentially, internal sense organs [eyes, ears etc.] and external objects that are observed [the external world]. Because of this the six sense bases arise, (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind), when for example, the functioning eye hits an external object like color and form this is called 'contact'. Right after contact arises then 'feeling' arises [that is pleasant, painful or neither pleasant nor painful feeling]. This is where 'craving' arises [craving manifests as a tightness in both the mind and body particularly the subtle tension in the head]. Next the 'clinging' arises [clinging manifests as the thoughts and preconceived ideas that we have about the feeling].

Now, let us stop there and see what the difference between one pointed concentration and tranquility meditation really is. When we practice Vipassana the way it is currently taught the instructions say to watch the hindrance until it goes away. Then immediately redirect mind back to the breath [wherever you are told to watch, the abdomen or the nostril tip and the upper lip]. In doing the meditation in this way mind brings back that subtle tightness to the meditation object [and over a period of time the force of the one pointed concentration will push down the hindrance so it will not arise again, at that time, but when the one pointedness lessens during our daily activities the hindrances WILL come back with a vengeance]. The not seeing of this subtle tightness or tension can cause the meditation to go away from our goal of liberating equanimity, purifying mind permanently and seeing the whole process of dependent origination clearly. So the hindrances are kind of put on hold by force of the one pointedness but they are not eradicated.

When we practice meditation by way of tranquility meditation as the instructions are given to us in the suttas, the results are a little different. The basic instructions say to 'experience the physical body on the in and out breath'. What happens here in America is most people think the body starts at the neck and goes down from there, but when the attention goes up it is considered the mind. This is a mistaken perspective.

The next part of the instructions say to 'tranquilize the entire bodily formation on the in breath and the out breath', so it means that we relax the subtle tightness in our body which includes the head and by doing that our mind relaxes also.

So getting back to the hindrances the real question is "HOW do they arise?" Not why are they there or what can we do to stop them from bothering us. This is the subtle difference between the approaches of the one pointed practice and the tranquility practice. When the meditator relaxes all tension or tightness on the in breath and the out breath, mind stays very alert and mindfulness is sharp. So, when a hindrance begins to arise and their mind is calm enough, the meditator sees some movement of mind that eventually leads away from the breath and relaxing. Mind begins to move and kind of wobble and it gets more pronounced until mind gets pulled away from the meditation object [the breath and relaxing] and becomes involved with the hindrance and all of the reasons that they like it or dislike it.

According to the teachings about the five aggregates there are body, feeling, perception, thoughts [I use this as a general term and know that there is more to it than that but for now I'll use the term thought] and consciousness. When a hindrance arises the first thing the meditator tries to do is 'think the feeling away' so the hindrance gets bigger and more intense. This is the source of the Dukkha trying to control feeling with thoughts. First, there is the strong identification with the feeling as being ours personally and this causes mind to tighten around it and squeeze it even tighter and this causes more suffering. So the force of the one pointed concentration will eventually become so strong that it pushes down the hindrance temporarily and this brings some relief for a short period of time. But, this is not eradication, this is a delaying tactic

Now when the meditator practices tranquility meditation they are used to seeing the breath and using the breath as a reminder to relax even the slightest tightness and let it be, without identifying with it, or trying to control it, in any way. So when the meditator's mindfulness [observation power] becomes weak, for whatever reason, a hindrance will begin to arise and if the meditator's mindfulness weakens even more they won't notice mind wobbling and moving away from the meditation object until it is already caught by the hindrance and becomes totally involved with it.

There is always the 'trying to control' of the feeling with thoughts about why it is there and what pain and suffering it caused by that movement. So the first thing one should do is let go of the thoughts and relax the tightness caused by them. This is done by allowing them to be there but not paying any attention to them anymore and then letting the tightness in the body [especially the head] go. When this is done there is a feeling of expansion and openness in the head and mind, then mind takes a little step down and becomes even more calm and peaceful. At that time mind is very alert and mindfulness [observation power] is sharp.

Next, the meditator can notice a tight mental fist wrapped around the feeling [remember pleasant, painful or neither] and then they relax and allow the feeling to be there without trying to control it. Then the meditator relaxes again and this time the feeling of expansion is a little bigger and the tranquility is a little stronger. At that time mind is pure and free from all craving and clinging. There is no tightness, only a pure awareness and this is the mind that the meditator brings back to their meditation object.

Of course, the hindrance won't go away immediately and this is good because the meditator has the opportunity to look more closely at how the whole process works. The closer they look, the more easily the hindrance is let go of and the clearer mind becomes. So after working with the hindrance for awhile, one will be able to see more and more subtle things arising and in this way will be able to sharpen their awareness to a very fine degree.

Now the thing to recognize is that when the meditator is able to see a hindrance arise very well in the sitting meditation, they will also be able to recognize them when they arise in daily life! Meditation is, "an all of the time practice" not just a sitting practice and this kind of sharp awareness leads directly to the cessation of suffering.

BRIAN: Thanks to the fact that we set the clocks back last night, there was an extra hour for meditation this morning (yay!), so I ended up with three sessions of about one hour each, with breaks in between for bathroom trips and a little walking meditation.

It was very noticeable that the arising of the hindrances was manifesting as the arising of tension in particular areas of the body (including the head): a lot of it was in one or both shoulders, some in the hands (a tightening of the right thumb), some in the hips and thighs. Also at one point, a tightness (to the point of twitching) just above the left eyebrow.

In each case, when the tension was noticed, the response was to relax the tension, to smile, and to return to the primary object either the Breath or Metta.

Bhante, have you noticed if particular hindrances manifest habitually in certain areas of the body? By that I mean, do meditators report that restlessness and worry habitually makes their shoulders rise up and hunch? Or sexual desire causes a flexing and tension in the hips or groin area? Just wondering...

BHANTE VIMALARAMSI: It is an interesting question you have asked about 'where' certain hindrances arise. And the answer is, that for different people they arise in different places and one can't generalize too much about them. And it doesn't really matter where a hindrance arises in your body. The important thing to remember is to see 'HOW' it arises, how mind begins to wobble and pull away from the meditation object and the calmness. The more closely one looks at 'HOW' this occurs the easier they are to recognize them and the more quickly they can be let go of and relaxation of the movement. When the meditator becomes very calm and their mind is alert, they will be able to see the slightest movement and let it go and then they can see the slightest or subtlest tightness and relax it. This can happen before it arises to the surface and mind is completely distracted by it.

So, the 'where' is only the grosser forms of the hindrance and when the meditator becomes very good at recognizing the 'How' then mind will begin to settle down to a clear bright equanimity that sees even the most subtle of movements and doesn't become attached to them in any way. What I am talking about is very subtle and takes a lot of practice to be able to see clearly.

Meditation is not about "doing nothing", it is about observing, 'How' the mindfulness gets weak and the movements of mind are the beginning of a hindrance. But observing is not all that the meditator does [this is a mistake made by people who practice 'choiceless awareness' and doesn't lead to deeper states of observation]. When the observant meditator sees that movement and recognizes it, then they relax and let the movement be by itself [i.e.. let it go], they are observing 'HOW' feeling arises and then the craving which manifest as tightness arises. Only then does the meditator softly smilingly redirect mind back to the meditation object.

As one becomes more skillful at seeing these slight movements, they then begin to see that there are still more subtle things that happen, which the teacher doesn't tell the student. The student has to tell the teacher about them. In that way the teacher knows that the student isn't making things up or misperceiving the occurrences in meditation.

BHANTE VIMALARAMSI: I also want to say something about one of the suttas that you mentioned about the hindrances, it is about sutta #20 in the Majjhima Nikaya, 'The Removal of Distracting Thoughts'. I have to say that I have used this sutta and given many talks about it, until I began to run across this other method of observation and the realization that everything the Buddha taught has to do with the 4 Noble Truths and dependent origination. So I am very familiar with it. But lately I have come to realize that this sutta may have been added later because of all of the one pointed concentration that was being practiced. I have found that the last section about 'ramming one's tongue against the roof of their mouth and suppressing mind with mind', doesn't really agree with the spirit and practice. Forceful suppression of anything causes mind to become attached, ergo my objection to it. This sutta has been taught a lot throughout Burma as the way to overcome these hindrances when they are strong and troublesome. It has the "suck it up, baby" approach to meditation that leads one to many different types of other problems.

The Buddha's approach to meditation is always to gently accept whatever arises in the present moment, so why does this sutta even appear? As time progressed from the Buddha's death until the Visuddhi Magga was written, it seems that this sutta wasn't around or used. But with the popularization of the Visuddhi Magga [written by Ven. Buddhagosa, a converted Brahman] this sutta was added and became more popular. Anyway, to suppress mind with mind doesn't seem to lead to peace and calm. And neither does replacing one thought with another. If we are following the directions about dependent origination these other techniques just don't make sense. How are we supposed to see this process of dependent arising when we are replacing or fighting a hindrance? If we take dependent origination seriously, then the way I have described in the other email that I sent to you seems to make more sense and adds to our own understanding of how mind works. And that is what the Buddha's teachings are all about!

One other thing that I realized is that upon rereading what I wrote before, I didn't explain that the meditator doesn't keep relaxing the tightness in the body until it goes away. For example: tightness in the shoulders, the meditator notices it then relaxes one time before redirecting their mind to the breath and relaxing again. They don't relax...relax...relax...relax... until the tightness goes away. The most important thing about the meditation is to always be with the breath and relax. So, if the meditator still has some tightness and they bring it back to the meditation object [the breath], mind will go back to that distraction and tightness again, and again, but the main

difference of this technique is that every time the meditator lets go of whatever the distraction is, relaxes, and redirects mind back to the breath, that slight relaxation brings with it two things. One is a calm mind and the other is seeing the impersonal nature of this process and how mind moves away from the breath and relaxing.

The more familiar one becomes with seeing this process more closely, the easier and more quickly it is noticed and the stronger one's mindfulness and equanimity becomes. Working with hindrances sharpens one's power of investigation [one of the enlightenment factors].

BRIAN: Bhante, thank you for this follow-up. Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh made a similar point in his book "The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings." But as with that work, I would like to know more about this issue. Is there textual or archaeological evidence to support this theory?

I ask, because Majjhima Nikaya 20, Vitakka Santhana Sutta, "The Removal of Distracting Thoughts" is not the only sutta in which this sort of approach is recommended. If it were an isolated instance, it would be easier to believe that it was indeed a later addition to the Canon, as you say. But since this sort of approach can be found elsewhere in the Canon, it's harder to dismiss (for me, anyway). For example, in Majjhima Nikaya 2, Sabbasava Sutta, "All the Taints," in section 20 on taints to be abandoned by removing, it is said:

20. "What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by removing? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, does not tolerate an arisen thought of sensual desire; he abandons it, removes it, does away with it, and annihilates it. He does not tolerate an arisen thought of ill will... He does not tolerate an arisen thought of cruelty... He does not tolerate arisen evil unwholesome states; he abandons them, removes them, does away with them, and annihilates them.* While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not remove these thoughts, there are no taints, vexation, or fever in one who removes them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by removing.

* [endnote by Venerable Bhikkhu Bodhi: The first three types of unwholesome thought of sensual desire, ill will, and cruelty constitute wrong thought or wrong intention, the opposite of the second factor of the Noble Eightfold Path. The three types of wrong thought and their opposites are dealt with more fully in MN 19.]

And in Majjhima Nikaya 19, Devedhavitakka Sutta, "Two Kinds of Thought," it is said in sections 36, the Buddha recollects his practice when he was still only an unenlightened Bodhisatta:

3. "As I abided thus, diligent, ardent, and resolute, a thought of sensual desire arose in me. I understood thus: 'This thought of sensual desire has arisen in me. This leads to my own affliction, to others' affliction, to the affliction of both; it obstructs wisdom, causes difficulties, and leads away from Nibbana.' When I considered: 'This leads to my own affliction,' it subsided in me; when I considered: 'This leads to others' affliction," it subsided in me; when I considered: 'This leads to the affliction of both,' it subsided in me; when I considered: "This obstructs wisdom, causes difficulties, and leads away from Nibbana,' it subsided in me. Whenever a thought of sensual desire arose in me, I abandoned it, removed it, did away with it.

[Sections 4 and 5 repeat the above, replacing "sensual desire" with "ill will" and "cruelty," respectively.] Then section 6 explains the rationale behind this:

6. "Bhikkhus, whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. If he frequently thinks and ponders upon thoughts of sensual desire, he has abandoned the thought of renunciation to cultivate the thought of sensual desire, and then his mind inclines to thoughts of sensual desire. If he frequently thinks and ponders upon thoughts of ill will... upon thoughts of cruelty, he has abandoned the thought of noncruelty to cultivate the thought of cruelty, and then his mind inclines to the thought of cruelty, and then his mind inclines to thoughts of cruelty."

[The sutta eventually goes on to describe the Buddha entering upon and abiding in the four rupa jhanas, then attaining the three true knowledges and finally attaining Nibbana.]

Would you say that MN 2 and MN 19 are also later additions, Bhante?

BHANTE VIMALARAMSI: I think you will see that what I am talking about is consistent with the whole thrust of the Buddha's teachings. In sutta number 2: The removal and taking away of sensual desire, or ill will etc. is done by what I have already talked about. The right effort of the 8 fold path explains to notice the distraction, let it go, relax the tightness or tension and softly redirect the attention back to the meditation object and stay on that object. This is how one practices right effort [which I have renamed 'harmonious practice' because it is easier to understand when explained]. In other words this is how one annihilates the hindrance and it won't arise again. The object of meditation is a pure state of being for mind and this is where one's mindfulness becomes very important. The standard use of the word mindfulness seems to be rather confusing because it is used in such general terms, Let's be mindful of this or that, but the question is how and what are we supposed to be 'mindful' of. So, let us use the term 'observation power' instead. This term means to be observant of how mind moves and be aware of it, then let it go, relax and redirect the attention back to the Breath and relaxing some more.

So, any kind of movement of mind is to be observed and let go of then relaxed into. This is how the taints are abandoned. In other words, one's observation power becomes so sharp that even the slightest movement and tightness is seen and let go of before it rises to the surface and becomes a full blown distraction.

Now the question of why sensual desire, ill will and cruelty are unwholesome thoughts as Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi states: The reason that these thoughts are unwholesome is because they cause massive amounts of distractions and make mind forget to see what is happening as a process that is impersonal [which causes even more tightness and tension in both mind and body]. When one's 'observation power' notices that one of these taints has arisen and the meditator lets go of the thoughts about them, then relaxes, next they notice the tight mental fist wrapped around one of these taints and lets go of the feeling around that. Then again they relax and mind is redirected back to the breath and relaxing again. At that time one's observation power becomes stronger and when the taint arises again it can be seen more quickly [at first only marginally quicker, but when this is done over and over again, one becomes more familiar with what happens first... what happens next...

what happens next... etc. then the observation power becomes keener and the taint is seen for what it truly is, nothing more than a process that dependent origination shows us.]

In sutta # 19: Again the Buddha is talking about right effort and going back to the meditation object. In these cases the meditation objects are the Brahma Viharas [loving kindness, compassion, joy, and equanimity].

So I wouldn't say that suttas #2 and #19 are later additions, but when practiced are in accord with all of the other suttas. It is only sutta #20 that I have such a problem with.

I hope this has cleared up some of the confusion.

BRIAN: Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. Thank you for the lucid clarification, and for the continued good will for my mother during her recovery.

If you haven't tired of my questions yet, I would like to ask a tangential question, but one which is not unrelated to this discussion of how to handle the hindrances. It has to do with how we should practice sense restraint, or guarding the sense doors. Even the word "restraint" has definitely forceful connotations. How do you teach the practice of sense restraint, which, in progressive teachings (like the Sama-n-naphala Sutta, DN 2, for example), always precedes the establishment of mindfulness.

<quote> "And how does a monk guard the doors of his senses? On seeing a form with the eye, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. On hearing a sound with the ear... On smelling an odor with the nose... On tasting a flavor with the tongue... On touching a tactile sensation with the body... On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. Endowed with this noble restraint over the sense faculties, he is inwardly sensitive to the pleasure of being blameless. This is how a monk guards the doors of his senses." <end quote>

My question is: in terms of actual practice, how should this "not grasping any theme or details" be practiced? I have noticed that, on seeing something desirable on television, for example, my tendency is to want to look away, to push the pleasant contact away, out of fear of becoming attached to it and giving rise to an evil, unskillful quality like greed. But that pushing away is aversion, isn't it? Another unskillful quality...

So is the answer to observe this movement of mind, let go of it, and relax into it, as with the hindrances arising in formal sitting meditation?

BHANTE VIMALARAMSI: I sincerely hope that this email finds you smiling and happy! The more joy we can cultivate in our lives the happier we will be!

I am always happiest when Dhamma questions are asked, so please don't feel that you are taxing me in any way at all, it brings me joy, thank you! The question about how to restrain the sense doors is an interesting one and you basically do the restraining in the same way that you handle the hindrances. For example: when watching TV a beautiful or painful sight arises, so mind grabs onto it and becomes enthralled with it. This is called 'getting caught by its signs and features'. In other words, a hindrance arises. The biggest and most troublesome hindrance is 'restlessness' and it seems to always be followed closely by the 'liking or disliking of the object of restlessness', and grabs onto the eye consciousness and uses it. Of course this is how the opening of the craving and clinging turns into being. When that happens we are definitely caught and the ensuing dukkha is always present.

Again, going back to the way mind works through 'seeing dependent origination' is the key. So basically restraining the sense doors means to be watchful of how this process works and to let it go, and of course relax then always...always...always go back to your meditation object, even if it is only for a brief second before mind goes back to a distraction. This is something that can't be stated enough. Going back to your home base of the breath or Metta or whatever, is the way our observation power becomes stronger and our equanimity grows. Just letting go and relaxing without going back to your meditation object doesn't really help at all. So please always "go home" after letting go and relaxing, softly redirecting mind back to the home base of your chosen meditation object.

When watching TV or listening to music, the good functioning sense door has 'contact' with an external object. Right after this contact is made then 'feeling' arises [that is pleasant, painful or neither pleasant nor painful], following on the feeling's heels is 'craving' which is the "I like it... I don't like it" mind, which manifests as tightness or tension in mind and body. Please notice the word "I" and how this is a part of craving. In other words, this is where the false idea that this feeling is "mine" personally begins. Next, the 'clinging' arises and this is all of the reasons that we like or dislike what presents itself to the eye as color and form or the ear as sound; that is, the preconceived ideas about what is seen or heard and also all of the thoughts about why we like it or dislike it.

If one's observation power isn't sharp enough to see this process clearly, one loses their equanimity and becomes so involved with these sights and/or sounds, that they are taken completely out of the present moment and get lost in these hindrances and disturbances. Then what happens is mind starts running around and goes to all different kinds of things. That is when the meditator runs into all kinds of dukkha!

So, in the practical aspects of restraining the sense doors, the meditator simply sees the sight or hear the sound and watches how mind reacts to it. When tightness or tension arises they simply notice it and let it go then relax and briefly go back to the breath and relax again, then, watch as mind gets caught by another thing.

The important thing to remember is to play and have fun with this process. Anytime we start taking things seriously it means that our observation power is weak. That is not a reason to criticize ourselves or condemn our mindfulness. It is a reason to laugh at how tricky mind

is and how easily it gets caught up in the drama. It really is a fun show to watch when our perspective allows us to see things clearly. I have said to many meditators "this by far, is the best show in town". So, have fun with it, laugh with yourself instead of getting caught by a hindrance that pulls mind down into the mud. Another thing that I tell the meditator is "No one has ever said that life is supposed to be taken seriously". This can be a fun ride or a hell realm. It is our own choice. I think having fun with this process is more fun than fighting with it, but that is my own decision for me. You can choose for yourself. That way we can never blame others for our happiness or sadness. We have made our own choice with it.

It might be helpful as a kind of meditation to go to our website at www.dhammasukha.org and then click on the reading the suttas then go to the "six sets of six" and print it out then read it out loud everyday for a couple of weeks. The reason that I say to go to our website is, I took out all of the dot dot dot ... so there is lots of repeating but because this is an oral tradition it can make major changes in the meditation. I have done this for a period of time and found it to be very useful. [please forgive the minor mistakes I have tried to get them corrected but have met with some resistance].

BRIAN: Thank you so much, Venerable Sir, I shall do just this for the next couple of weeks. I just finished doing the first recitation, and already I've noticed something new:

For a long while, I have been doing as instructed and regarding the eye as not mine, forms as not mine, eye consciousness as not mine, eye contact as not mine, and eye feeling as not mine (and the same for the other senses & objects, etc.) But when it comes to craving, I've been unknowingly regarding it as mine, as in "My Problem gotta get rid of MY craving..." So reading the sutta "Six Sets of Six" aloud just now gave a little charge of understanding, a little thrill of delight to finally remember: the craving is dependently arisen, too, just like all the others. Not "my problem" after all! I hope this has been of some help to you, and please forgive my getting on the soapbox and 'preaching', old habits sometimes die hard.

This dialogue continues to be of great, great help to me, Bhante, and I'm deeply grateful.