BV: This is right after the Noble Eightfold Path, the next section. You ready (?) ... because to me this doesn't make a lot of sense.

MN:
(8. The Eight Liberations)

22. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop the eight liberations. Possessed of material form, one sees forms: this is the first liberation.

BV:
What does that mean? How is seeing forms as forms liberation? Is that what it says, basically? Ok, I would guess that it means any time you see forms you don't run after them and hold onto them and get caught up in your craving and clinging for more material forms. I would guess that's what it means by that liberation. I don't know.

MN:
Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally: this is the second liberation.

BV:
So we're talking about the six sense bases for the first liberation and the external objects for the second liberation.

MN:
One is resolved only upon the beautiful: this is the third liberation. [13]

BV:
Being resolved on the beautiful, most of the time in the suttas, is talking about being in a state of very strong equanimity and having that uplifted mind.

MN:
With the complete surmounting…

BV: So that does agree with what it says next.
Repeats {With the complete surmonting}

MN:
of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of sensory impact, {with non-attention to perceptions of diversity}, aware that 'space is infinite,' one enters upon and abides in the base of infinite space: this is the fourth liberation. By completely surmounting the base of infinite space, aware that 'consciousness is infinite,' one enters upon and abides in the base of infinite consciousness: this is the fifth liberation. By completely surmounting the base of infinite consciousness, aware that 'there is nothing,’ one enters upon and abides in the base of nothingness: this is the sixth liberation. By completely surmounting the base of nothingness, one enters upon and abides in the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception: this is the seventh liberation. By completely surmounting the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, one enters upon and abides in the cessation of perception and feeling: this is the eighth liberation. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

BV:
So, the first two, they don't make sense to my mind, unless they're somehow talking about the lower jhānas. Now the footnote here from Buddhaghosa, it says:

Footnote # 764:
…The first liberation is the attainment of the four jhānas using a kasiṇa (see §24 and n.768) derived from a coloured object in one’s own body; the second is the attainment of the jhānas using a kasiṇa derived from an external object; the third can be understood as the attainment of the jhānas through either a very pure and beautiful coloured kasiṇa [BV: No.] or the four brahmaviharas.

BV:
That's not right because the beautiful is always the fourth jhāna, the equanimity.

Footnote:
The remaining liberations are the immaterial attainments and
the attainment of cessation.

BV:
So it seems like this is a progressive way of describing the liberations, but the first two they don't quite make sense, the way it's here anyway. That's why it's a puzzlement.

TT: 4:57

MN:
(9. The Eight Bases for Transcendence)

23. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop the eight bases for transcendence. Perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, limited, fair and ugly; by transcending them, one perceives thus: 'I know, I see.' This is the first base for transcendence.

BV:
Now, the commentary, it says:

Footnote 766: MA:
The meditator does the preliminary work on an internal form—e.g., the blue of the eyes for a blue-kasiṇa, the skin for a yellow kasiṇa, the blood for a red-kasiṇa,

BV:
What happens if you’re American Indian you got red for skin? (sighs)

Footnote:
the teeth for a white-kasiṇa—

BV: If you have any.

Footnote:
but the sign of concentration (nimitta) arises externally.

BV: I don’t know what that means.

Footnote:
The “transcending” of the form is the attainment of absorption together with the arising of the sign. The perception “I know, I see” is the advertence (abhoga) that occurs after he emerges from the attainment, ….

BV:
They’re talking about one-pointed concentration. Doesn’t make sense. There’s got to be more to it than that.
Repeats: This is the first base for transcendence.

MN:
Perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, immeasurable, fair and ugly; by transcending them, one perceives thus: 'I know, I see.' This is the second base for transcendence. Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, limited, fair and ugly; by transcending them, one perceives thus: ‘I know, I see.' This is the third base for transcendence.

BV:
This is talking about one-pointed concentration, that's just plain and simple. And how that translates into samatha/vipassanā, I don't know. And I would be very much interested to find out. (laughs) So, your job (laughs)… yeah, is to figure that one out for me.

MN:
Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, {immeasurable, fair and ugly; by transcending them, one perceives thus: ‘I know, I see.' This is the fourth base for transcendence. Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally,} blue, of blue colour, blue in appearance, with blue luminosity. Just like a flax flower, which is blue, of blue colour, blue in appearance, with blue luminosity, or just like Benares cloth smoothened on both sides, which is blue, of blue colour, blue in appearance, with blue luminosity; so too, not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally... {with blue luminosity; by transcending them,} one perceives thus: ‘I know, I see.'

BV: Doesn’t make any sense.

MN:
This is the fifth [14] base for transcendence. Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, yellow, of yellow colour, yellow in appearance, with yellow luminosity.

BV:
Now, what they're doing is just going through the colors of the kasiṇas and saying they're forms of transcendence and... don't know, I don't know about kasiṇas. I tried working with kasiṇas with one-pointed concentration, but I haven't got a clue how to use a kasiṇa with the samatha/vipassanā because with the one-pointed concentration you take a disc that's about this big (gestures).

What I did was I took the cover off of my bowl and I covered it with white cloth and tied it. Then I put it a certain distance, three or four feet away from me, and I would stare at it. And according to the directions I was saying "white, white, white, white, white color, white, white, white", and then I would close my eyes and try to visualize that. And it was interesting, and I got some good concentration and I could keep my eyes closed and it changed into a pearl-essence kind of color in a form and all of this stuff, but it was a one-pointed concentration and I eventually wind up stopping because I didn't know... "What good is that"?

TT: 10:02

You know it's one-pointed concentration, I can go very deep, I could go through jhānas if I wanted to, but I didn't see any sense in it... kind of like you (gestures). So, I didn't know what to do with it and there wasn't anybody around to tell me. And because I was practicing it there were monks from other monasteries, they were coming and asking me how to do it. And I - I was dumb - I didn't know. I'm just working on my own, trying to figure it out. It just didn't make any sense.

BJ: ~

BV:
Yeah, I know, but what are they really talking about? I haven't found the sutta that explains enough about the kasiṇa to tell me how to do it with samatha/vipassanā, not absorption. One interesting thing did happen; as I was looking at the kasiṇa I saw an ant walking across, and I closed my eyes and I saw the ant walking across (gestures and laughs)... how was that useful? I don't know.

But they're talking about all of these things with the different colors and I did talk with one monk and he said "Well, you gain psychic ability when you have the kasiṇa, and you can turn water into milk", and things like that, and I thought well that could be useful sometimes (laughter). I fill up the jug with water and turn it into milk, and keep going. And now we're talking about the ten different kasiṇas...

MN:
Omits: {just like a kannikara flower, which is yellow, of yellow colour, yellow in appearance, with yellow luminosity, or just like Benares cloth smoothened on both sides, which is yellow, of yellow colour, yellow in appearance, with yellow luminosity; so too, not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally...with yellow luminosity; by transcending them, one perceives thus: 'I know, I see.' This is the sixth base for transcendence. Not perceiving form externally, one sees forms externally, red, of red colour, red in appearance, with red luminosity. Just like a hibiscus flower, which is red, of red colour, red in appearance, with red luminosity, or just like Benares cloth smoothened on both sides, which is red, of red colour, red in appearance, with red luminosity; so too, not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally...with red luminosity; by transcending them, one perceives thus: 'I know, I see.' This is the seventh base for transcendence. Not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally, white, of white colour, white in appearance, with white luminosity. Just like the morning star, which is white, of white colour, white in appearance, with white luminosity, or just like Benares cloth smoothened on both sides, which is white, of white colour, white in appearance, with white luminosity; so too, not perceiving form internally, one sees forms externally...with white luminosity; by transcending them, one perceives thus: 'I know, I see.' This is the eighth base for transcendence. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.}

(10. The Ten Kasiṇas)

24. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop the ten kasiṇa bases. One contemplates the earth-kasiṇa above, below, and across, undivided and immeasurable. Another contemplates the water-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the fire-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the air-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the blue-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the yellow-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the red-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the white-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the space-kasiṇa...Another contemplates the consciousness-kasiṇa [15]
[above, below, and across, undivided and immeasurable. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the perfection and consummation of direct knowledge.]

BV:
How do you contemplate a consciousness kasiṇa? What is the real definition of kasiṇa? ... Interaction with students: That might be the way to start looking for it, I don't know... Round disc... Okay, how do you have a consciousness kasiṇa (laughs) and what do you do to develop that? ... Ok (laughs), but how did they do it? (laughs) And would the Buddha use that kind of meditation with one-pointed concentration? It doesn't lead to nibbana. Everything the Buddha was interested in leads to nibbana. At least that's what I get from reading this stuff.

So, how was the practice that he taught different from the practice of what was being practiced at that time? How was it different? What was his key so you could see dependent origination, and not go so deep into the absorption that you lose your body completely? Interesting question. (laughs) I never found anybody because everybody was practicing one-pointed concentration. So, anyway...

MN:
(11. The Four Jhānas)

25. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to develop the four jhānas.

BV: Now we’re getting back down to it.

TT: 14:33

MN:
Here, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. He makes the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion drench, steep, fill, and pervade his body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. Just as a skilled bath man or a bath man's apprentice heaps bath powder in a metal basin and, sprinkling it gradually with water, kneads it till the moisture wets his ball of bath powder, soaks it and pervades it inside and out, yet the ball itself does not ooze; so too, a bhikkhu makes the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion drench, steep, fill, and pervade this body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded {by the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion}.

BV: This is in the first jhāna.

MN:
26. "Again, with the stilling of applied and sustained thought, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the second jhāna, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind without applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of concentration. He makes the rapture and pleasure born of concentration drench, steep, fill, and pervade his body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the rapture and pleasure born of concentration. Just as though there were a lake whose waters welled up from below and it had no inflow from east, west, north, or south [16] and would not be replenished from time to time by showers of rain, then the cool fount of water welling up in the lake would make the cool water drench, steep, fill, and pervade the lake, so that there would be no part of the whole lake unpervaded by cool water; so too, a bhikkhu makes the rapture and pleasure born of concentration drench, steep, fill, and pervade this body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the rapture and pleasure born of concentration.

27. "Again, with the fading away as well of rapture, a bhikkhu abides in equanimity, and mindful and fully aware, still feeling pleasure with the body, he enters upon and abides in the third jhāna, on account of which noble ones announce: 'He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful.' He makes the pleasure divested of rapture drench, steep, fill, and pervade this body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the pleasure divested of rapture. Just as in a pond of blue or red or white lotuses, some lotuses that are born and grow in the water thrive immersed in the water without rising out of it, and cool water drenches, steeps, fills, and pervades them to their tips and their roots, so that there is no part of all those lotuses unpervaded by cool water; so too, a bhikkhu makes the pleasure divested of rapture drench, steep, fill, and pervade this body, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the pleasure divested of rapture.

28. "Again, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna, which has neither-pain-nor-pleasure and purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. He sits pervading this body with a pure bright mind, so that there is no part of his whole body unpervaded by the pure bright mind. Just as though a man were sitting covered from the head down with a white cloth, so that there would be no part of his whole body not covered by the white cloth; so too, a bhikkhu sits pervading this body with a pure bright mind, so that there is no part of his whole body [17] unpervaded by the pure bright mind. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

(12. Insight Knowledge)

29. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to understand thus: 'This body of mine, made of material form, consisting of the four great elements, procreated by a mother and father, and built up out of boiled rice and porridge, is subject to impermanence, to being worn and rubbed away, to dissolution and disintegration, and this consciousness of mine is supported by it and bound up with it.' Suppose there were a beautiful beryl gem of purest water, eight-faceted, well cut, clear and limpid, possessed of all good qualities, and through it a blue, yellow, red, white, or brown thread would be strung. Then a man with good sight, taking it in his hand, might review it thus: This is a beautiful beryl gem of purest water, eight-faceted, well cut, clear and limpid, possessed of all good qualities, and through it is strung a blue, yellow, red, white, or brown thread.' So too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to understand thus: This body of mine...is subject to impermanence, to being worn and rubbed away, to dissolution and disintegration, and this consciousness of mine is supported by it and bound up with it.' And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

TT: 22:15

BV:
This is talking about seeing things as they actually are, the insights that you have for these kind of things. So, when you see things through the eyes of dependent origination you see this to such a fine degree that you know that this is an impersonal process. There's nothing you can hold onto. There is only process arising and passing away, and as you see that and you relax into it and 6R it, your mind becomes more and more calm, and you start to see the slightest, tiniest movements of mind, and as you 6R that then you'll go deeper and get into eventually where there is no vibration, there is no perception, there is no feeling. Now we go to mind-made bodies...

MN:
(13. The Mind-Made Body)

30. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to create from this body another body having form, mind-made, with all its limbs, lacking no faculty. Just as though a man were to pull out a reed from its sheath and think thus: This is the sheath, this is the reed; the sheath is one, the reed is another; it is from the sheath that the reed has been pulled out'; or just as though a man were to pull out a sword from its scabbard and think thus: This is the sword, this is the scabbard; the sword is one, the scabbard another; it is from the scabbard that the sword has been pulled out'; [18] or just as though a man were to pull a snake out of its slough and think thus: This is the snake, this is the slough;

BV: Skin.

MN:
the snake is one, the slough another; it is from the slough that the snake has been pulled out.' So too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to create from this body another body having form, mind-made, with all its limbs, lacking no faculty. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

TT: 24:56

BV:
Mind-made body is very, very similar to your regular body, but you can send it places. And when monks would be sitting in the forest they always made a seat ready for the Buddha. And if the Buddha saw that he was having one problem or another he would do a mind-made body and send it to them, and he would reappear on the seat and then they would discuss what the problem was and how to overcome it and then he would disappear again.

These things are possible through the meditation, if you're really sensitive to feeling. And it's a rather unusual gift and people that are really sensitive to feelings they act like they're scatterbrained idiots. They can be incredibly intelligent and right on, but their emotions, they just… They pick up things from other people really, really easily, and they act that out. They act out that feeling thinking it's their feeling. So, when somebody comes to me that's really sensitive and they get into at least the fourth Jhāna then by itself mind will start tending towards these other psychic abilities, developing the divine eye.

And going and visiting somebody's house and they can tell you what they're doing at exactly this time and come back, and you call them up and say what were you doing twenty minutes ago? And they describe what they were doing and it’s exactly what this person... These kind of things they start happening naturally. I certainly don't encourage it for anybody because it's really, really hard to teach someone that has these psychic abilities because they start taking them personally and they start puffing up their ego and their pride and "look at what I can do" and my job is to take the pin and pop them all the time.

It does take a while to develop the skill in doing that. So, somebody is really into that, which I certainly don't encourage, I try to tell them just to leave that go, don't get involved with that; let it be, relax come back, go with the eight jhānas. If they don't want to and they want to develop those then I tell them that they have to spend at least five years with me, and you see how many people are around that are doing that. (laughs) It takes a while to develop it so that there isn't this pride.

And the last of the psychic abilities is seeing dependent origination and experiencing nibbana. That's the last of the six categories, I guess you would call them, of psychic ability. Ok, now we go to the kinds of supernormal power...

MN:
(14. The Kinds of Supernormal Power)

31. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to wield the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, they become many; having been many, they become one; they appear and vanish; they go unhindered through walls, through enclosures, through mountains, as though through space; they dive in and out of the earth as though it were water; they walk on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, they travel in space like birds; with their hands they touch and stroke the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; they wield bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.

BV:
Which means that you can go and visit the different realms.

MN:
Just as a skilled potter or his apprentice might create and fashion out of well-prepared clay any shape of pot he wished; or just as a skilled ivory-worker or his apprentice might create and fashion out of well-prepared ivory any ivory work of art he wished; or just as a skilled goldsmith or his apprentice might create and fashion out of well-prepared gold any gold work of art he wished; so too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to wield the various kinds of supernormal power...[19]...they wield bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

TT: 30:34

BV:
To experience these different kinds of psychic abilities you have to become very, very familiar with the four elements individually. You start working with the earth element - hardness/softness, and you work with the water element - cohesion/fluidity, and then once you have good skill with them you can direct the way you want them to be.

So, there's a lake and you wanted to get to the other side without getting your feet wet. You would bring up the earth element in your mind and you would see a path or could be small footsteps like the stones out there, and you could walk across and not get any moisture on your feet. Or you can want to visit somebody. So, you start looking at the earth right here as if was water, and you can dive right into the earth and then pop up in front of that person. Dipa Ma used to do that to Munindra fairly often. So much so that he got used to it. It wasn't a shock. (laughs)

Anyway, I did know one monk that could fly. He was in Burma and he was in a place up in the mountains just outside of Mandalay, it was up in the mountains... it was Maymyo. And he was the one that was sitting underneath this huge Bodhi tree, and he developed his psychic ability with the air element so that he could sit and he could fly around, but the problem was some villagers saw him do that and all of a sudden he was an arahat.

And he would go out on almsround, and the village was very poor. They barely had enough food for themselves - when I went out on almsround sometimes somebody would put one peanut or two pieces of potato chip because that's all they could afford - but when he went out on almsround they gave him all their food for the day because they wanted the merit. So it was suggested to him that he went to another place and not be there, but they really wanted him there. So that's kind of a balancing thing.


When it was Katina time he got four hundred robes from an incredibly poor village. But they had all their relatives come and it was a big festival. And I asked him about that. I said: "Well, why are you doing it where people can see you do it?" And he said: "Well, it's hard because there's so many farms all over. They're kind of scattered around. It's hard to be able to develop this and fly one place to another without being seen".

So... and I ask him if he was an arahat, and he said: "I'm not even a sotāpanna". But he had developed his concentration to a very fine degree. And when he left, I took over his spot in the Bodhi tree because it was hollowed out, and he put a platform in there. And the townsfolk what they did was they put a bathroom, they built a bathroom there for him, so it was real convenient. Anyway, ok...

MN:
(15. The Divine Ear Element)

32. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way whereby with the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, they can hear both kinds of sounds, the divine and the human,

BV:
So you can... when you develop this ability, you can hear people talking in the Devalokas or the Brahmalokas. You can hear conversations if you want. You can carry on conversations with them too.

TT: 35:20

MN:
Repeats: {they hear both kinds of sounds, the divine and the human}, those that are far as well as near. Just as a vigorous trumpeter might make himself heard without difficulty in the four quarters; so too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way whereby with the divine ear element... hearing far as well as near. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

BV:
This develops by itself. When you start working with your past lifetimes, as you're starting to do now, your mind will start to get more and more pure, more and more deep, more and more relaxed, as your equanimity grows. And eventually it will get to such a state that you will start to see with the divine eye, and hear with the divine ear, beings in other realms. And all you have to do is direct your mind "I want to go visit a hell realm". And you can hear what's happening down there; you can go and talk to some of the people and see what's happening to them and ask them what they did in the past to have this happen. And this sounds like it's fairy tale stuff, this is for real.

And as you get more and more confident in being able to see dependent origination, you start seeing the dependent origination of being in all of those realms. And you can see how people get caught by their craving and clinging and habitual tendencies and all of that sort of thing. But your mind gains this very, very, very strong equanimity to that. So, you don't become involved in their story, but you find out their story. And you don't take the story personally. You see the story as being part of dependent origination.

Now, this is why this particular kind of practice is the fast track because after you see your own past lifetimes, and you start to see that, your mind will tend towards seeing how the dependent origination works in your past lifetimes too. And then you start directing it towards other beings and seeing how it works with them. So, you're teaching yourself dependent origination, not at first, but as you go deeper you'll start seeing that more and more clearly. And that's why it's the fast track because you really do see how this is a process, and cause and effect is for real. There ain't no doubt about it. You'll see it in yourself, you'll see it in other beings, and you'll see the cause and effect of "when this arises, that arises", and you'll see that. Mind becomes very, very clear... very, very alert. And there is personality that changes, that you go through. It's kind of fun (laughs). What more can I say? (laughs) It's real interesting and it's fun.

MN:
(16. Understanding the Minds of Others)

33. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to understand the minds of other beings, of other persons, having encompassed them with their own minds. They understand a mind affected by lust as affected by lust and a mind unaffected by lust as unaffected by lust; they understand a mind affected by hate as affected by hate and a mind unaffected by hate as unaffected by hate; they understand a mind affected by delusion as affected by delusion and a mind unaffected by delusion as unaffected by delusion; they understand a contracted mind as contracted and a distracted mind as distracted; they understand an exalted mind as exalted and an unexalted mind as unexalted;

TT: 40:32

BV:So you know all of these anyway.

MN:
they understand a surpassed mind as surpassed and an unsurpassed mind as unsurpassed; they understand a concentrated mind as concentrated and an unconcentrated mind as unconcentrated; they understand a liberated mind as liberated and an unliberated mind as unliberated.

BV:
Now, this liberated and unliberated is another aspect of seeing the impersonal process. Ok, that's what the liberation really is all about, when it comes down to seeing the impersonal process in everything. What happens is your mind starts to get sensitive to other people's thoughts. When they have a desire in it or they have an aversion in it or they're really caught, you'll know that. There are times when this happens and you will speak about what somebody else is thinking and they will not appreciate your doing that. So you need to be very careful with this kind of ability.
It does develop pretty much really by itself. Many monks have this ability. If you have a desire... you're visiting a monk and he gave you a little bowl of ice cream and you have a desire for some water, he'll tell somebody to go and get water for you. You gotta be real careful around monks.

MN:
Just as a man or a woman—young, youthful, and fond of ornaments—on viewing the image of his or her own face in a clean bright mirror or in a bowl of clear water, would know if there were a spot thus: 'There is a spot,' [20] or would know if there were no spot thus: 'There is no spot'; so too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way to understand...an unliberated mind as unliberated. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.


BV:
Now we get into the recollection of past lives...

MN:
(19. The Destruction of the Taints)

36. "Again, Udāyin, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way whereby by realising for themselves with direct knowledge, they here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints. Just as if there were a lake in a mountain recess, clear, limpid, and undisturbed, so that a man with good sight standing on the bank could see shells, gravel, and pebbles, and also shoals of fish swimming about and resting. He might think: 'There is this lake, clear, limpid, and undisturbed, and there are these shells, gravel, and pebbles, and also these shoals of fish swimming about and resting.' So too, I have proclaimed to my disciples the way whereby by realising for themselves with direct knowledge, they here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints. And thereby many disciples of mine abide having reached the consummation and perfection of direct knowledge.

37. "This, Udāyin, is the fifth quality because of which my disciples honour, respect, revere, and venerate me, and live in dependence on me, honouring and respecting me.
 
38. "These, Udāyin, are the five qualities because of which my disciples honour, respect, revere, and venerate me, and live in dependence on me, honouring and respecting me."

That is what the Blessed One said. The wanderer Udāyin was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.

TT: 49:43

BV:
So take that, and do it.

So this gives you a pretty good idea of... there's a real big idea in this country in particular that the Buddha was not interested in anyone practicing these supernormal powers, and the truth is, he praised them, he taught them. As you can see he was teaching all of these different meditators different forms of these meditations, and the mental development therein.

So, when somebody comes to you of your straight vipassanā friends and says you're only practicing jhāna, you can say "No, I'm practicing jhāna and insight at the same time." In one sutta, it says very clearly that samatha and vipassanā are evenly yoked together. You can spend all your time just developing one of those, but it's like pulling a cart that has two oxen on it. If you hold one back and to have the other one moving, you wind up going in circles. If you want to go in a straight line, you have to put both of these together so that they'll pull at the same time.

And it's the same way with people that are just practicing jhāna, especially the one-pointed jhāna, and not developing their insight at all. They're going in circles. But when the samatha practice and the vipassanā practice are practiced together evenly, and you're starting to see how that balance is really starting to happen. You have these insights into tiny little things and huge insights into "Wow, look at that. That's the way that works!" That's insight and the samatha practice at the same time, and the Buddha was very importantly mentioning that.

If you want a good experiment, look up samatha in the index in the Majjhima Nikaya and then look up insight, and you find out that they are a lot of times mentioned in the same sutta. Not 100% because sometimes the Buddha will talk about insight without mentioning the samatha practice and other times he'll do it another way. But it's so often that they are mentioned together in the same sutta that it really makes you take notice, that well, maybe something is being missed if you're just doing one practice or just doing the other practice. That's probably the biggest disservice of the commentaries is making them separate practices instead of keeping them together.
I've been talking a long time...

TT: 54:27 - 58:45

Interaction with BJ and students:
Did you find out the questions that we had last night? ... Ah. ... The eight liberations. ... Insight kasiṇa. ... Oh, nails, teeth, skin, yeah, yeah, yeah, ok. ... Ok. ... Ok. So what he's talking about is the thirty-two body parts, and getting to the upper arupa Jhānas through the thirty-two body parts. You'd never get that from "possessed of material form one sees forms" ... 638 ... So, what does a "not perceiving form internally one sees forms externally". ... Yeah. ... Ok! So, that means breath or metta or whatever else.. whatever else.. Ah! Let me have a pencil quick. Now, what does the word kasiṇa mean? ... A round disk. So, you're talking about kasiṇa for the thirty-two body parts. That's seeing one body part in a round disk? Ok. What is the kasiṇa of consciousness? (laughs) ... Light kasiṇa. That makes more sense. Yeah. Radiant. Yeah. Ok, how do you practice kasiṇa meditation with samatha/vipassana, how do you do that? Do you know? ... The commentary is gonna tell you how to do one-pointed. (laughs) Do you know of anyone in Burma that practices kasiṇa? ... Well, it makes me suspicious, thinking that the kasiṇas are actually not Buddhist meditation. It's actually Brahmin meditation mixed in with Buddhist meditation. I really think that that's so. ... You haven't read the Visuddhimagga or the Vimuttimagga enough. (laughs) ... That is the question, isn't it? (laughs) ... The light they're talking about is obhasa, yeah? That means radiance. ... Radiance. There is a radiance that comes off of all material forms. ... It's difficult finding a person that knows about that sort of thing. Not many people know about it. ... When I was at Wat Vivek Asom in Thailand, in Chombury, there was a samanera that he had a dream of the six numbers, and he told the monks and they all gave him some money. And he went and put that on that number, and the number won and he disappeared. (laughs) He disrobed (gesture), left! (laughter).
(58:46) Ok, let's...




Sutta translation (C) Bhikkhu Bodhi 1995, 2001. Reprinted from The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha: A Translation of the Majjhima Nikaya with permission of Wisdom Publications, 199 Elm Street, Somerville, MA 02144 U.S.A, www.wisdompubs.org



Text last edited: 04-Nov-08